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INGMAR BERGMAN
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...BIDS FAREWELL TO FILM
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A rhyme for the porridge.
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"Our porridge is our strength and stay
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It is our staple food
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In joy, in grief, both night and day
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It always does us good"
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Now!
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Look! I found the almond!
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Four cheers for the coming year's
little bride-to-be!
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Cut! Thanks.
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When they cheer,
you look at them all very happily.
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Am I in there, too?
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Look, I got the almond!
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Was it memories of bourgeois homes
and Christmases like this one
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that made you make this film?
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Not at all.
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I started to write
mostly for the fun of it.
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I didn't give the slightest
thought to what might come of it,
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whether it would become
a film, a novel,
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or something for TV.
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In fact, I began to write about Uppsala
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and my grandma's world
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on Garden Street.
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Did you visualize it?
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Yes. I carry it inside me,
as a memento from my childhood.
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Sometimes, when falling asleep...
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It's a very good way to go to sleep,
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the state between being awake
and falling asleep...
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I step into Grandma's apartment
and walk through the rooms.
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I see very clearly
that picture hanging on the wall,
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that carpet, that clock,
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that little porcelain figurine.
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I walk from room to room
and I know exactly
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where all those little
things are to be found.
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And I can recall the smells...
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We live in a totally different
environment of sound and light today
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than we did back then.
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I can recall all the sounds
from that time.
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Even the smells.
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The light I recall in my memory
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is altogether different
from what we experience today.
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So I started to write it all down...
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and enjoyed doing it.
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There is...
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a short story by E.T.A. Hoffmann
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that was turned
into the ballet The Nutcracker.
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It begins with a magnificent
Christmas celebration.
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Two children sit on a staircase,
waiting for the doors to open.
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The tree and the whole celebration
are being set up inside.
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That always fascinated me.
That's how it started.
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I began by recreating the Christmas spirit,
and then one thing led to another.
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It's like drilling for water.
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You hit a spring
and it starts to gush out like crazy.
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Then it got very long and voluminous.
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I never thought about why this
or that happened. I just continued.
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So perhaps this was coming
out of your subconscious?
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I guess a lot of things were waiting
for me to formulate them.
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It's kind of odd to think...
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for those who have followed your work
over 30 years as a film director...
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that you started out
as a young rebel,
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exposing these wretched families,
this dishonest bourgeois mentality...
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To think that it would end
in this loving celebration,
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these deep red,
bourgeois Christmases,
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almost like those of Dickens
or Fritz Reuter. It's fantastic!
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You know, even the devil
might take vows in his old age.
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On the other hand, I must admit
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I'm quite allergic to every form
of Christmas celebration.
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I simply cannot stand them.
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Really? So this doesn't go on
at your home?
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No, absolutely not.
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I'd rather spend Christmas
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with a book and some fish balls.
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That's more like what people expect.
And your famous beret.
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Well, I put that away, because
as I got older, it seemed unbecoming.
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But I really spend Christmas
without all the common trappings.
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But it was fun to recreate...
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my childhood Christmases,
because they really happened that way.
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My mother was
a very prominent director,
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and we lived
practically in the countryside...
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in a corner of Lil/jahsskogeh.
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Exactly like in the rural provinces.
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It was a huge vicarage
with lots of relatives...
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uncles and aunts
on both Mother's and Father's side.
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So Christmas was a huge production,
full of commotion.
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It was lovely and gorgeous
in every possible way.
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Now it's Yule again, now it's Yule again
and Yule will last until it's Easter
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That's not true of course
No, that's not true of course
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For in between comes
Lent and fasting
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Now this is the funny part.
You come in like this.
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And suddenly
you steer her over there.
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You slip out of line
and join the others' hands.
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They keep on going. Continue.
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You push her in there, and you say,
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"Shall I visit you tonight?"
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Yes, yes. And you continue.
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She gets free and escapes.
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Right. Then she's saved
by joining the group here.
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Unfortunately, you end up here
next to your wife.
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That's good. Thank you.
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ls Alexander in the movie
a portrait of you as a child?
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Well, yes and no.
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He's very much a composite.
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What were you like as a child?
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Well...
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a lot like I am today, I guess.
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Though a lot more scared and worried,
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if that's possible.
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But also very curious
about human existence.
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l was, despite what everyone
believes, a very happy kid.
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I had a very happy childhood.
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The problem was
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that those who raised me...
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my parents and so forth...
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almost always sent mixed messages,
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if you know what I mean.
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On the one hand, there was
this positive, life-affirming attitude
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and a certain joyous,
worldly mentality,
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and we children enjoyed
a certain freedom and independence.
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On the other hand, there were the sudden
incomprehensible punishments,
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the sermonizing,
confessing your sins and such.
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That was very hard
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for a child to understand.
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Before puberty,
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l was probably just
one lucky little devil,
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who could enjoy
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many of the pastimes
that I spent most of my time on...
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cinematography and theater.
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And with their support.
I mean, no one tried to stop me there.
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Though I remember
when l was 12 years old and bought...
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With some money from an aunt,
I went to an antique dealer
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to buy Strindberg's collected works
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The red annotated edition
by Landqvist... you know the one.
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And as I struggled to get all 55 volumes
home, l was completely happy,
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since Strindberg had already become
my personal household god.
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But then Father came in,
saw all the books and said,
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"Put those away!
I will not have Strindberg under this roof!"
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I had to stash them all in a closet,
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but nobody ever tried to stop me
from reading Strindberg.
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We never had that kind of censorship.
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The punishments
were mostly unreasonable
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and terribly brutal.
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You're a wise little man, Alexander.
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You realize that the game is up...
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but you are proud and stubborn...
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and of course you are ashamed.
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I've forgotten what I'm to confess.
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Have you now.
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What does the bishop want
Alexander to confess?
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You know I have means at my disposal.
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I didn't, but I do now.
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In my childhood,
parents were not so softhearted.
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They had the cane.
l have one too.
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It's an ordinary carpet beater,
but it can dance a fine step!
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If that didn't work, we had other
effective means, namely castor oil.
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There you see the bottle and a glass.
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A few mouthfuls of this
and you're more docile.
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If that didn't help,
there was a dark and cold cubbyhole
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where you sat for a few hours until
the rats started sniffing at your face.
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Why must I be punished?
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That is obvious, my boy.
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You have a weakness in your character.
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You can't distinguish lies from truth.
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So far they are just child's lies,
however dreadful they may be.
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But soon you will be
a grown man, Alexander,
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and life punishes liars
ruthlessly and indiscriminately.
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The punishment is to teach you
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a love of truth.
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I've always believed
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there's some sort of virulent,
self-propagating evil.
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I don't think all the evil
around us can be explained.
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I believe it's a very strong,
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very vital, self-propagating evil
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that exists for its own sake.
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I believe there's completely
inexplicable goodness as well.
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So you kind of let
the devil off the hook?
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Well, okay,
you might call it the devil,
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but I don't think that's really it.
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But the film is mostly
autobiographical, isn't it?
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As a matter of fact, it isn't.
Well, some elements of it, perhaps...
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When I first set out,
I didn't know what I wanted to write.
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It was like some sort
of good-humored outburst,
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and I began occupying myself
with Uppsala,
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what my grandma's place looked like.
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I kept wandering through the rooms
in my memory and thinking about it.
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That's where it all started.
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It's always remained
very strong in my consciousness,
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this apartment of my grandma.
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I stayed with my grandma very often,
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and l was very attached to her.
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In a way I was afraid of my parents,
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though I was fond of them as well.
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Especially my mother.
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This is the first time you made a film
with a child as the leading actor?
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Yes. I've always been afraid
to make films with children and animals.
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This is indeed the first time.
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It was wonderfully lighthearted.
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Give a little yell,
and then rush in together.
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- l'm last.
- You're last, and you're first.
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I've been thinking about it.
You've all got slippers on.
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- Should we take them off?
- I'm worried you might slip.
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What do you think?
It's a bit risky.
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- I'll take them off.
- Isn't it better without them?
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But make sure you know where they are
when you're not on camera.
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Actually, it's better
if you're not wearing slippers.
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Before we begin, let's make sure
there are no nails sticking up.
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You're in there.
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So you're in there.
We've rehearsed that.
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And then...
Listen!
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Wait a minute. Stop.
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such a positive film.
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You're world-famous
for being so sinister,
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one of the world's
most sinister film directors.
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That's the general opinion
of you and your work.
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00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:35,534
Yes, I know.
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00:15:35,634 --> 00:15:40,867
And then you make your last movie
with this very sensual, happy quality.
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00:15:41,707 --> 00:15:44,687
I guess deep down
I'm really one happy devil.
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lt's burst out every now and then
over the years.
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l've kicked up my heels a time or two,
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and I found it to be tremendous fun.
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In the words of Strindberg,
from To Damascus:
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"Despite my understandable melancholy,
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I never managed
to take anything really seriously."
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Without further comparison,
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I'd say it feels really good.
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Because that's the way it is.
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Even if you depict all the misery
in the world and get involved in it...
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there's already something in the very act
of sitting down to portray it,
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putting pencil to paper
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or adjusting a camera setting
and beginning to film it...
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There's an element of delight there
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that makes it agreeable.
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There's an element ofjoy
in telling about the dark stuff.
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Because anyone
who's really as tormented
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as my films sometimes become...
without my even realizing it...
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should in fact
go straight on to hang himself.
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Many people have turned to writing
instead of hanging themselves.
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Yes, I guess that happens.
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00:17:17,369 --> 00:17:22,523
But there's no doubt that
for me the element ofjoy
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in doing things has always
been very strong.
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00:17:28,514 --> 00:17:30,883
There is, as you say,
a delight in doing things...
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00:17:30,983 --> 00:17:33,953
Isn't there also a special kind ofjoy
in making them particularly diabolic?
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No, it just turned out that way.
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Sometimes I've realized afterwards
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that they turned out
even worse than I thought.
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00:17:44,129 --> 00:17:48,372
That things became
even darker and more horrible
247
00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:50,803
than I thought they would.
248
00:17:50,903 --> 00:17:52,903
For example,
249
00:17:53,605 --> 00:17:57,291
both From the Life of the Marionettes
and The Serpent's Egg
250
00:17:57,910 --> 00:18:03,143
are, in their own way, unfinished
because they're such introverted films.
251
00:18:04,550 --> 00:18:07,007
So totally without options.
252
00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:10,513
But there's no doubt that
when they were made,
253
00:18:11,056 --> 00:18:15,208
they depicted a state of mind
that I had experienced for myself.
254
00:18:16,528 --> 00:18:21,181
And in making those films l was trying
to get myself out of that state of mind.
255
00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:24,970
You must be very happy that,
before you quit making movies,
256
00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:28,107
you made this one that expresses
this open way of relating to life.
257
00:18:28,207 --> 00:18:30,615
Well, no, lthink
that Fanny and Alexander,
258
00:18:30,876 --> 00:18:33,117
and the fact that people like it...
259
00:18:36,381 --> 00:18:41,068
and that those who invested in it
got their money back,
260
00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:44,778
and that everybody is happy with it...
261
00:18:45,557 --> 00:18:47,798
That is an act of grace, you see.
262
00:18:48,494 --> 00:18:52,442
You know, making movies before,
263
00:18:53,098 --> 00:18:54,967
and being successful...
264
00:18:55,067 --> 00:18:57,433
I sort of took it for granted.
265
00:18:58,203 --> 00:19:03,300
But now I react
with feelings of gratitude
266
00:19:04,109 --> 00:19:05,811
and surprise.
267
00:19:05,911 --> 00:19:08,711
In the film,
this lighthearted philosophy of life
268
00:19:08,847 --> 00:19:11,683
is represented by the uncle,
Gustav Adolf, played by Jarl Kulle.
269
00:19:11,783 --> 00:19:14,386
He's naive and positive in outlook,
and a true womanizer.
270
00:19:14,486 --> 00:19:16,789
I'd like us to watch and listen
to his celebration of life,
271
00:19:16,889 --> 00:19:18,889
which is also the film's.
272
00:19:25,664 --> 00:19:29,873
My dear, dear friends.
273
00:19:32,337 --> 00:19:34,476
I am more moved than I can say.
274
00:19:40,979 --> 00:19:43,698
My wisdom is simple.
275
00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:48,502
There are those who despise it,
but I don't give a damn...
276
00:19:49,321 --> 00:19:52,057
Forgive me, Mama.
I noticed you raised your right eyebrow.
277
00:19:52,157 --> 00:19:55,360
You think your son is talking too much.
Don't worry. I will be brief.
278
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:58,202
Therefore... and consequently...
279
00:19:59,364 --> 00:20:03,016
we Ekdahls have not come
into the world to see through it.
280
00:20:03,802 --> 00:20:05,637
Never think that.
281
00:20:05,737 --> 00:20:10,185
We are not equipped
for such excursions.
282
00:20:11,343 --> 00:20:14,676
We might just as well ignore
the big things.
283
00:20:16,348 --> 00:20:21,138
We must live in the little world.
284
00:20:23,689 --> 00:20:25,689
We will be content with that
285
00:20:26,658 --> 00:20:30,196
and cultivate it
and make the best of it.
286
00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:36,399
Suddenly death strikes.
287
00:20:37,836 --> 00:20:41,078
Suddenly the abyss opens.
288
00:20:42,841 --> 00:20:45,708
Suddenly the storm howls,
and disaster is upon us.
289
00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:48,745
All that we know.
290
00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:52,376
But let us not think
of all that unpleasantness.
291
00:20:52,918 --> 00:20:55,489
We Ekdahls love our subten‘uges.
292
00:20:56,555 --> 00:21:01,208
Rob a man of his subterfuges
and he goes mad and begins lashing out.
293
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,589
Damn it all,
people must be intelligible!
294
00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:11,137
Otherwise we don't dare to love them
or speak ill of them.
295
00:21:11,770 --> 00:21:15,422
We must be able to grasp
the world and reality
296
00:21:16,708 --> 00:21:20,804
so we can complain of their monotony
with a clear conscience.
297
00:21:21,847 --> 00:21:25,032
Is that how you wish
to sum up your view of life?
298
00:21:25,584 --> 00:21:30,408
Not at all.
You're referring to his speech?
299
00:21:31,189 --> 00:21:33,189
No, not at all.
300
00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:37,921
This speech about
the large and small aspects of life,
301
00:21:38,463 --> 00:21:40,852
about engaging in "the small life"...
302
00:21:43,635 --> 00:21:46,115
that's not me at all.
303
00:21:47,572 --> 00:21:49,572
That is entirely Gustav Adolf.
304
00:21:52,077 --> 00:21:56,025
Don't forget
that his last name is Ekdahl,
305
00:21:56,682 --> 00:22:01,187
and there is a most famous
lifelong deceiver named Hjalmar Ekdahl
306
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,229
in lbsen's The Wild Duck.
307
00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:09,424
The Ekdahl family was in fact named
after the Ekdahls in that play.
308
00:22:16,101 --> 00:22:21,289
This speech was written
309
00:22:22,107 --> 00:22:24,409
partly in a sudden outburst
of good mood,
310
00:22:24,509 --> 00:22:27,489
and partly...
311
00:22:29,381 --> 00:22:31,747
in a sort of good-humored anger
312
00:22:33,285 --> 00:22:36,436
over all these heroes of social activism
313
00:22:37,556 --> 00:22:40,889
who through the years
have slandered me
314
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:43,460
for lacking such social commitment.
315
00:22:48,533 --> 00:22:52,651
A good friend of mine
came groaning to me and said...
316
00:22:53,972 --> 00:22:55,807
I'll never forget this...
317
00:22:55,907 --> 00:23:01,607
the events in Algeria
kept him awake at night.
318
00:23:02,714 --> 00:23:05,794
And this from someone
who sleeps damned well at night!
319
00:23:05,917 --> 00:23:10,513
It has always irritated me,
320
00:23:11,256 --> 00:23:16,899
because of course we all worry
321
00:23:17,796 --> 00:23:22,005
about what's happening around us...
there's no escaping it.
322
00:23:22,701 --> 00:23:24,942
lt's constantly rushing over us,
323
00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:28,737
and our senses aren't constructed
to understand it,
324
00:23:29,508 --> 00:23:31,972
no matter how much imagination
we may have.
325
00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:37,083
We experience moments of great anxiety
for ourselves and our children.
326
00:23:39,718 --> 00:23:43,666
But I think
327
00:23:44,322 --> 00:23:47,155
this frenzy of social activism,
which prevents us
328
00:23:47,659 --> 00:23:51,459
from enjoying a waltz,
or a good meal, or a spring day,
329
00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:54,258
is reprehensible.
330
00:23:54,666 --> 00:23:58,818
Do you realize you were criticized
by a bishop for this little speech?
331
00:23:59,504 --> 00:24:02,519
He mistook it to be
Ingmar Bergman speaking.
332
00:24:03,041 --> 00:24:07,603
That's right. My father,
who was a priest, used to say,
333
00:24:08,513 --> 00:24:12,265
"Isn't it sad that it's always the morons
who become theologians?"
334
00:24:14,186 --> 00:24:18,896
Because the irony
and the ambiguity in this speech
335
00:24:19,658 --> 00:24:22,081
was over this bishop's head.
336
00:24:23,428 --> 00:24:26,264
Is there nothing of you
in the character of Ekdahl?
337
00:24:26,364 --> 00:24:28,639
Well, of course there is.
338
00:24:29,067 --> 00:24:32,867
I think there's a little of me
in every character,
339
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,440
even in the bishop,
340
00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:38,782
as well as the rest of the characters.
341
00:24:39,344 --> 00:24:42,984
The bishop has got a lot more
interesting qualities than Ekdahl.
342
00:24:43,315 --> 00:24:46,500
You portray the bishop
as a rather unhappy figure,
343
00:24:47,052 --> 00:24:50,188
who also behaves very sadistically
towards his stepson.
344
00:24:50,589 --> 00:24:52,589
The bishop believes...
345
00:24:59,564 --> 00:25:04,069
and that you have
to relate to it accordingly.
346
00:25:05,337 --> 00:25:09,580
The bishop looks
at the world quite differently,
347
00:25:10,275 --> 00:25:14,052
and he thinks one has to behave
quite differently because of that.
348
00:25:15,213 --> 00:25:19,832
And all parties are, more or less,
349
00:25:20,585 --> 00:25:23,042
victims of their own perceptions.
350
00:25:23,488 --> 00:25:27,859
The bishop's home is sinister, private,
nihilistic, just like his religion, right?
351
00:25:27,959 --> 00:25:32,430
I think I brought some of that with me.
352
00:25:34,466 --> 00:25:36,168
Maybe not so much from home,
353
00:25:36,268 --> 00:25:41,126
but I saw it in the environment
in which we grew up:
354
00:25:41,907 --> 00:25:46,287
the clergy of those days.
355
00:25:47,245 --> 00:25:49,245
Something very nihilistic
356
00:25:49,381 --> 00:25:52,942
and extremely frightening.
357
00:25:53,585 --> 00:25:57,785
The bishop's home looks like your films
from Faro of the '60s, doesn't it?
358
00:25:59,457 --> 00:26:01,457
Rather dark and barren.
359
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,036
The bishop's home looks a lot
like that in Winter L/ght,
360
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:10,449
where they've forgotten...
361
00:26:12,037 --> 00:26:14,585
They remember the law
but forget the gospel.
362
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,773
Which of your negative traits
does the bishop have?
363
00:26:21,446 --> 00:26:24,597
I don't think the bishop
and l are that much...
364
00:26:25,150 --> 00:26:28,210
I think that very often
365
00:26:29,287 --> 00:26:32,757
it's easy to take over qualities...
366
00:26:34,392 --> 00:26:37,611
that you dislike from your parents.
367
00:26:38,163 --> 00:26:41,553
You inherit,
consciously or subconsciously,
368
00:26:42,133 --> 00:26:44,436
either through genes
or parental pressure...
369
00:26:44,536 --> 00:26:48,575
a lot of qualities from your parents.
370
00:26:49,774 --> 00:26:53,722
There was one aspect
371
00:26:59,818 --> 00:27:02,742
especially for an anarchist,
372
00:27:04,756 --> 00:27:07,270
a natural rebel
and maverick like myself,
373
00:27:08,093 --> 00:27:10,093
and that was the dogmatism.
374
00:27:11,062 --> 00:27:15,681
It was more of a cultural thing:
Parents simply could never be wrong.
375
00:27:17,168 --> 00:27:20,296
Just like God or the king
could never be wrong.
376
00:27:21,473 --> 00:27:26,706
The words "I'm sorry"
simply did not exist.
377
00:27:27,545 --> 00:27:30,935
Parents could never admit
they behaved badly.
378
00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:35,879
It was always us children
who were pushed
379
00:27:36,488 --> 00:27:39,093
to contemplate our guilt and shame.
380
00:27:39,557 --> 00:27:42,133
We didn't always agree
to being in the wrong.
381
00:27:42,394 --> 00:27:46,307
You had to accept punishment
and ask for forgiveness,
382
00:27:46,965 --> 00:27:49,650
despite your innocence.
383
00:27:52,003 --> 00:27:57,236
And I guess I carried that with me
in my early years.
384
00:27:58,076 --> 00:28:04,515
I really struggled with that dogmatism.
385
00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:10,446
l'm authoritarian by nature.
386
00:28:11,523 --> 00:28:13,523
My democratic qualities
387
00:28:13,758 --> 00:28:18,582
aren't that well developed,
388
00:28:19,364 --> 00:28:21,364
due in large part to my profession.
389
00:28:22,934 --> 00:28:27,553
But as you grow
more conscious of it,
390
00:28:28,306 --> 00:28:30,442
and it becomes more and more
tedious to live that way,
391
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,177
you gradually give it up.
392
00:28:32,212 --> 00:28:34,212
So, you're
a freedom-loving authoritarian?
393
00:28:34,312 --> 00:28:35,747
Yes!
394
00:28:35,847 --> 00:28:37,782
One who dislikes others
to be authoritarian?
395
00:28:37,882 --> 00:28:39,451
Yes. Right.
396
00:28:39,551 --> 00:28:43,088
I love democratic decision making,
as long as I do the deciding.
397
00:28:43,188 --> 00:28:47,425
And you like to impose your will on your
environment, control the situation.
398
00:28:47,525 --> 00:28:50,997
I've noticed on several occasions
that you must be in charge.
399
00:28:51,429 --> 00:28:55,024
You know, it's a double-edged sword,
400
00:28:56,134 --> 00:28:59,114
because I know professionally,
401
00:28:59,637 --> 00:29:04,256
the moment I coerce
my actors in any way,
402
00:29:05,009 --> 00:29:07,898
they might perform
the way I want them to,
403
00:29:08,413 --> 00:29:13,942
but on the other hand,
I know the results may be disastrous.
404
00:29:15,153 --> 00:29:20,307
Because everything done...
405
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,774
on stage or in front of a camera
406
00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:27,230
must happen totally voluntarily.
407
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:31,036
One might persuade people,
influence them to do certain things,
408
00:29:31,136 --> 00:29:34,264
but one can never destroy
their own free will.
409
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,569
Cut.
410
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:42,322
My old teacher, Torsten Hammarén,
whom I met as a young director
411
00:30:43,074 --> 00:30:48,307
at the end of the '40s,
taught me everything about the theater.
412
00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:57,067
to listen and to shut up.
413
00:31:00,692 --> 00:31:04,164
I didn't quite understand it then,
as l was rather garrulous.
414
00:31:04,896 --> 00:31:09,083
But then I realized that actors...
415
00:31:11,502 --> 00:31:14,187
are pretty intuitive people
416
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,748
and that I had to develop
my own intuition
417
00:31:19,312 --> 00:31:21,312
to meet them on an equal level.
418
00:31:21,412 --> 00:31:24,540
Actors are not particularly
verbal, you know.
419
00:31:25,083 --> 00:31:29,171
They often have difficulty expressing
what they mean and what they want.
420
00:31:29,354 --> 00:31:33,541
There are often things
that can't be easily expressed,
421
00:31:34,225 --> 00:31:36,944
but we could meet
on an intuitive level.
422
00:31:41,833 --> 00:31:44,199
Much of what we do
423
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:48,936
happens on a subconscious
level anyway.
424
00:31:49,641 --> 00:31:51,641
There's no doubt about it.
425
00:31:51,976 --> 00:31:56,424
We understand each other
and we trust each other.
426
00:31:58,249 --> 00:32:00,249
Thus we create
427
00:32:01,886 --> 00:32:04,457
a feeling of safety on the job.
428
00:32:04,923 --> 00:32:09,394
Do you keep explaining to the actors
the emotional situation at hand?
429
00:32:10,128 --> 00:32:12,232
I try not to explain too much.
430
00:32:12,797 --> 00:32:18,360
I try not to overexplain
things for them.
431
00:32:19,237 --> 00:32:24,118
Maybe I reinforce their perception
of what they're doing.
432
00:32:34,552 --> 00:32:36,521
No...
433
00:32:36,621 --> 00:32:42,184
I try to listen
with both my outer and inner ears.
434
00:32:43,528 --> 00:32:48,534
I try not to talk all the time,
435
00:32:49,334 --> 00:32:52,895
but to let the actors
feel their way...
436
00:32:54,739 --> 00:32:56,474
into the issues instead.
437
00:32:56,574 --> 00:33:00,283
I just might
438
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:04,259
put in a word here or there,
439
00:33:04,782 --> 00:33:08,468
and so we attempt
to come together
440
00:33:09,087 --> 00:33:11,157
and reach something together.
441
00:33:12,991 --> 00:33:16,051
But there is no way
442
00:33:16,961 --> 00:33:19,850
to make an actor do something well
443
00:33:20,365 --> 00:33:23,445
against his or her own will.
It's simply not possible.
444
00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:27,303
You make your move on the turn.
Look this way, Sven.
445
00:33:27,705 --> 00:33:29,705
That looks great.
446
00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:34,677
Is everything okay?
447
00:33:37,115 --> 00:33:38,449
"It is not I..."
448
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:40,618
It is not I talking.
It is yourself.
449
00:33:40,718 --> 00:33:44,757
Then put your hand
in front of his face.
450
00:33:45,423 --> 00:33:46,391
Like that.
451
00:33:46,491 --> 00:33:48,491
You are not to hesitate.
452
00:33:50,094 --> 00:33:52,094
He's sound asleep.
453
00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:54,196
Just a moment.
454
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:56,815
Hold your hand in front of his eyes.
455
00:34:03,408 --> 00:34:05,334
You are not to hesitate.
456
00:34:05,434 --> 00:34:06,644
He's sound asleep.
457
00:34:06,744 --> 00:34:08,744
Then we follow the hand down.
458
00:34:10,448 --> 00:34:13,428
Wait, let's see. That's right.
459
00:34:19,123 --> 00:34:21,123
Stand still.
460
00:34:23,294 --> 00:34:27,046
The hands are at the bottom of the frame,
the eyebrows at the top.
461
00:34:27,398 --> 00:34:29,398
Look here. Look at the mouth.
462
00:34:31,769 --> 00:34:33,769
I know who you're thinking of:
463
00:34:38,543 --> 00:34:40,543
a tall man with fair, graying hair.
464
00:34:40,878 --> 00:34:42,413
Correct me if I'm wrong.
465
00:34:42,513 --> 00:34:45,883
He has clear blue eyes...
- He becomes more and more scared.
466
00:34:45,983 --> 00:34:47,983
He becomes terrified.
467
00:34:52,423 --> 00:34:54,943
Above the altar
hangs the crucified prophet.
468
00:34:56,127 --> 00:34:58,311
In his dream he gets up
and cries out,
469
00:34:59,597 --> 00:35:02,839
"My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?"
470
00:35:04,535 --> 00:35:06,170
There is no answer,
471
00:35:06,270 --> 00:35:07,772
not even a laugh.
472
00:35:07,872 --> 00:35:09,872
Don't talk like that.
473
00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:12,441
It is not I talking.
474
00:35:12,777 --> 00:35:14,777
It is yourself.
475
00:35:15,146 --> 00:35:16,681
Cut!
476
00:35:16,781 --> 00:35:20,477
Is there any difference between
directing children and grown-ups?
477
00:35:21,185 --> 00:35:23,426
Yes, there is.
478
00:35:24,388 --> 00:35:29,576
These children in
Fanny and Alexander-
479
00:35:32,463 --> 00:35:35,500
I never thought it could be fun
working with kids,
480
00:35:36,334 --> 00:35:40,691
but it turned out that these two...
481
00:35:42,406 --> 00:35:44,738
were immensely fun to work with.
482
00:35:45,176 --> 00:35:47,656
They were wonderful.
483
00:35:48,112 --> 00:35:51,015
When they came bouncing down
the stairs each morning,
484
00:35:51,115 --> 00:35:54,130
full ofjoy and eager
to commence this new game...
485
00:35:56,220 --> 00:36:00,259
I got a boost,
486
00:36:00,925 --> 00:36:04,873
an extra kick ofjoy,
because it was such fun.
487
00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:10,069
They never read the manuscript,
488
00:36:10,801 --> 00:36:13,986
and they were never asked
to study it at home.
489
00:36:17,275 --> 00:36:20,745
They had to learn it
every morning when they arrived.
490
00:36:21,512 --> 00:36:25,141
And you know kids...
things just fly into their heads.
491
00:36:26,384 --> 00:36:31,071
We played our way
through all the different scenes,
492
00:36:31,822 --> 00:36:37,055
the scary ones
as well as the funny ones.
493
00:36:37,895 --> 00:36:41,490
Here is an excerpt of you
filming the hundredth take...
494
00:36:42,099 --> 00:36:47,162
Yes, they were on the go
the whole time
495
00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:50,600
and enjoyed themselves enormously.
496
00:36:51,409 --> 00:36:56,563
They found it just as much fun
arriving for a day's work
497
00:36:57,381 --> 00:37:01,852
as leaving in the afternoon
when they didn't enjoy it anymore.
498
00:37:02,587 --> 00:37:04,827
And the next day
they were happy again.
499
00:37:05,122 --> 00:37:07,122
Like that. That much.
500
00:37:08,192 --> 00:37:10,192
Shh!" you say.
501
00:37:11,529 --> 00:37:13,633
Listen, he's playing the flute.
502
00:37:16,634 --> 00:37:17,935
If we concentrate...
503
00:37:18,035 --> 00:37:21,277
You turn toward her,
and you both sit down.
504
00:37:22,573 --> 00:37:25,258
If we concentrate on him dying,
then he will.
505
00:37:26,611 --> 00:37:28,537
But we have to start together.
506
00:37:28,637 --> 00:37:30,637
One, two, three:
507
00:37:30,948 --> 00:37:32,948
Die, you devil!
508
00:37:37,288 --> 00:37:40,592
"Die, you devil!"
Then there's another flash of lightning.
509
00:37:45,529 --> 00:37:48,100
You say, "One, two, three."
510
00:37:49,834 --> 00:37:52,298
Then he says, "Die, you devil,"
by himself.
511
00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:54,470
Right. We did it that way before.
512
00:37:57,808 --> 00:37:59,808
It was good the second time too.
513
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:06,350
You see he folds his hands...
514
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:08,450
- And I do too.
- Good.
515
00:38:13,057 --> 00:38:15,924
And sit up straight, like this.
Don't slouch.
516
00:38:17,561 --> 00:38:21,304
Then you look at him
and imitate his posture. Okay?
517
00:38:23,634 --> 00:38:24,969
One, two, three.
518
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:27,069
One, two, three:
519
00:38:27,204 --> 00:38:29,204
Die, you devil!
520
00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:33,309
And you continue playing.
521
00:38:35,946 --> 00:38:37,946
One, two, three:
522
00:38:38,249 --> 00:38:40,249
Die, you devil!
523
00:38:42,586 --> 00:38:45,134
- He's still playing.
- Let's try again.
524
00:38:46,891 --> 00:38:48,891
Look at her and then say it.
525
00:38:49,727 --> 00:38:51,727
One, two, three:
526
00:38:52,063 --> 00:38:54,063
Die, you devil!
527
00:38:58,069 --> 00:39:00,069
Then you look up.
528
00:39:00,304 --> 00:39:02,304
And you say...
529
00:39:03,407 --> 00:39:05,591
- "You can't..."
- Is it my turn?
530
00:39:06,811 --> 00:39:08,811
You can't hear it anymore.
531
00:39:10,848 --> 00:39:12,483
Maybe he's dead.
532
00:39:12,583 --> 00:39:14,583
- Maybe he died!
- Yes, right.
533
00:39:17,188 --> 00:39:19,188
Maybe he died.
534
00:39:32,703 --> 00:39:35,274
My sister and I
used to carry on like that.
535
00:39:35,740 --> 00:39:37,740
I recognize it well.
536
00:39:38,809 --> 00:39:42,279
- Did you laugh about it?
- No. We were damn serious.
537
00:39:43,147 --> 00:39:46,731
The movie ends with a quotation
from Strindberg's A Dream Play.
538
00:39:47,118 --> 00:39:50,021
"Everything can happen.
Everything is possible and probable.
539
00:39:50,121 --> 00:39:53,649
Time and place do not exist.
On a flimsy framework of reality,
540
00:39:54,191 --> 00:39:56,560
the imagination spins,
weaving new patterns."
541
00:39:56,660 --> 00:40:00,748
Is this what the movie is to you?
New patterns woven by the imagination?
542
00:40:01,899 --> 00:40:04,379
Well, I guess it always has been.
543
00:40:05,069 --> 00:40:09,950
Film has always been for me
544
00:40:11,776 --> 00:40:15,080
a fantastic opportunity
to knock down walls and ceiling...
545
00:40:15,946 --> 00:40:20,133
to stick my hand right through
546
00:40:20,818 --> 00:40:22,720
the membrane of reality.
547
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:26,358
To reach out for other worlds,
548
00:40:26,957 --> 00:40:32,020
to heighten events and tensions.
549
00:40:33,597 --> 00:40:39,536
I think film is an incredible medium,
550
00:40:41,005 --> 00:40:44,224
and I think that perhaps...
551
00:40:48,045 --> 00:40:52,732
we may just be standing
on the threshold of its development.
552
00:40:54,084 --> 00:40:56,416
And you know why?
553
00:40:56,854 --> 00:41:01,598
You see, film deals so intimately
with our dreams.
554
00:41:04,595 --> 00:41:08,123
The mysterious and remarkable thing
about film, as I see it...
555
00:41:08,232 --> 00:41:10,232
others may see it differently...
556
00:41:10,434 --> 00:41:13,801
is that film goes
beyond the intellect.
557
00:41:14,371 --> 00:41:17,899
It speaks directly to you...
and that's where its danger lies.
558
00:41:18,809 --> 00:41:23,667
It speaks directly to your conscious
as well as your subconscious mind.
559
00:41:24,448 --> 00:41:27,167
You're very much defenseless,
560
00:41:27,651 --> 00:41:29,664
very much exposed.
561
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:36,724
I think this is perhaps
562
00:41:37,761 --> 00:41:42,448
even more significant for theatrical films
than for films made for TV.
563
00:41:43,467 --> 00:41:47,244
Because a movie theater
is in essence a darkened room
564
00:41:48,539 --> 00:41:53,078
in which you're staring
at a single illuminated spot,
565
00:41:54,411 --> 00:41:59,189
which is the very basis
of at least a few types of hypnosis.
566
00:42:00,451 --> 00:42:03,811
You sit there motionless...
and comfortable, if possible...
567
00:42:04,922 --> 00:42:07,550
and you watch this illuminated spot.
568
00:42:08,025 --> 00:42:11,085
- The illusions.
- Right, and shadows.
569
00:42:11,729 --> 00:42:15,033
And it all streams right down
into your subconscious mind,
570
00:42:15,266 --> 00:42:17,201
into your soul.
571
00:42:17,301 --> 00:42:20,281
You can talk directly to this soul,
572
00:42:20,938 --> 00:42:24,089
and it's tremendously fascinating.
573
00:42:24,742 --> 00:42:27,144
The supernatural element
in this film can be found
574
00:42:27,244 --> 00:42:29,313
in, among other things,
the theme of spirits.
575
00:42:29,413 --> 00:42:32,189
Alexander's gentle father, Oscar,
dies too soon
576
00:42:32,683 --> 00:42:36,454
but doesn't wish to disappear
into the peace of heaven that awaits him.
577
00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:40,698
His spirit wanders about the house,
worrying about his wife and children.
578
00:43:01,378 --> 00:43:04,120
It's not my fault
it's all gone wrong.
579
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:09,087
I can't leave you.
I just can't.
580
00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:12,223
It would be better
if you'd take off for heaven.
581
00:43:12,323 --> 00:43:14,323
You can't help us anyway.
582
00:43:26,236 --> 00:43:30,240
I lived my whole life
with you children and Emilie.
583
00:43:32,109 --> 00:43:34,213
Death makes no difference.
584
00:43:34,845 --> 00:43:37,925
Do you draw a significant line
between life and death?
585
00:43:38,048 --> 00:43:41,961
No. I tried to depict this
once before,
586
00:43:43,220 --> 00:43:45,220
in Cries and Whispers...
587
00:43:46,657 --> 00:43:50,718
where a deceased person
is unable to leave behind
588
00:43:51,395 --> 00:43:55,547
the ones she loves
and the ones surrounding her.
589
00:43:56,734 --> 00:43:59,749
She hesitates
to leap into the unknown
590
00:44:00,270 --> 00:44:03,686
yet ends up stuck there anyway,
despite the fact she's dead.
591
00:44:04,308 --> 00:44:09,189
l have a feeling there's...
592
00:44:10,881 --> 00:44:12,881
I thought for a long time...
593
00:44:15,285 --> 00:44:18,061
l was convinced,
and I found it reassuring,
594
00:44:18,555 --> 00:44:22,207
that when you die, something
switches off, and you are no more.
595
00:44:22,826 --> 00:44:25,563
From being something,
you go to being absolutely nothing,
596
00:44:25,663 --> 00:44:27,663
and that's where it ends.
597
00:44:27,998 --> 00:44:31,968
When you're born,
you're switched on.
598
00:44:35,105 --> 00:44:37,994
I grow more and more
doubtful about this,
599
00:44:38,509 --> 00:44:41,197
as my experiences
don't lead in that direction.
600
00:44:41,578 --> 00:44:43,747
Do you sometimes dream
of those who have died?
601
00:44:43,847 --> 00:44:49,080
Yes, I think there are people
who have passed on
602
00:44:50,487 --> 00:44:55,197
whom I can almost touch,
who are very close to me.
603
00:44:55,959 --> 00:44:57,959
Maybe it's just my imagination.
604
00:44:58,095 --> 00:45:03,123
Maybe as I get closer
to the ultimate mystery myself...
605
00:45:04,368 --> 00:45:08,577
It may feel reassuring
that there's something afterwards,
606
00:45:09,273 --> 00:45:12,902
but I think it might not feel
so reassuring after all.
607
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:17,788
In fact, I think I prefer
that it be over when it's over.
608
00:45:18,482 --> 00:45:22,402
When I used to believe that,
it was a tremendous feeling of security.
609
00:45:23,087 --> 00:45:26,921
But I can't deny
610
00:45:28,392 --> 00:45:33,898
that I sometimes feel
I can reach out for a hand,
611
00:45:34,932 --> 00:45:38,026
or hear a voice, or...
612
00:45:38,769 --> 00:45:40,070
Talk to them?
613
00:45:40,170 --> 00:45:42,690
Not talk to them,
but communicate with them.
614
00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:47,765
I'd be lying if I didn't say so.
615
00:45:48,212 --> 00:45:52,308
I've tried to depict it...
616
00:45:54,685 --> 00:45:57,609
simply and clearly,
617
00:45:58,122 --> 00:46:01,683
without all the frills
and Vaseline on the lens.
618
00:46:02,292 --> 00:46:04,977
No strange electronic music.
619
00:46:05,462 --> 00:46:10,058
I wanted it to be in the same
obvious way that I experience it.
620
00:46:10,801 --> 00:46:14,100
Do these experiences
have a moral significance for you?
621
00:46:14,671 --> 00:46:18,448
Or is it the ghost of Hamlet
that urges you on?
622
00:46:19,076 --> 00:46:21,076
Or do they just exist?
623
00:46:21,311 --> 00:46:23,472
They just exist.
624
00:46:23,881 --> 00:46:26,509
I don't know why or how.
625
00:46:26,984 --> 00:46:30,260
The thing is, I just...
626
00:46:30,821 --> 00:46:33,061
I experienced this
strongly as a child.
627
00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:35,804
It just existed
and wasn't a big surprise.
628
00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:40,947
l was indeed frightened by death,
but also fascinated.
629
00:46:41,698 --> 00:46:44,849
I never stopped wondering about it,
630
00:46:45,402 --> 00:46:47,916
but as I grew older,
631
00:46:48,372 --> 00:46:52,524
my fear of dying took on
astronomic proportions.
632
00:46:56,246 --> 00:47:00,865
But now I don't feel that way.
633
00:47:03,187 --> 00:47:08,830
I consider this life
634
00:47:09,726 --> 00:47:11,944
to be one enormous adventure,
635
00:47:12,729 --> 00:47:17,701
filled with both wonderful
636
00:47:18,502 --> 00:47:20,641
and frightening things.
637
00:47:21,038 --> 00:47:24,815
I see it as one little part
of a long journey.
638
00:47:26,343 --> 00:47:30,586
But whether this is really
the case or not, I don't know.
639
00:47:31,281 --> 00:47:34,451
A journey whose origin and destination
are both shrouded in uncertainty?
640
00:47:34,551 --> 00:47:36,917
If there even is a destination.
641
00:47:37,354 --> 00:47:39,930
That I don't know either.
There might not be.
642
00:47:41,391 --> 00:47:44,133
Maybe the journey
is itself the destination.
643
00:47:44,828 --> 00:47:48,798
So the part of the trip that comprises
your films has come to an end?
644
00:47:49,466 --> 00:47:52,970
- Yes, it's finished.
- You've said this is your last movie.
645
00:47:53,570 --> 00:47:55,272
It will be my last movie, yes.
646
00:47:55,372 --> 00:47:57,341
There's no coaxing you
into reconsidering?
647
00:47:57,441 --> 00:48:01,411
I received a letter today
648
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:04,354
from a young man who wrote,
649
00:48:04,781 --> 00:48:10,481
"I'm very interested
in ancient history.
650
00:48:11,388 --> 00:48:13,908
Would it be possible
to get your autograph?"
651
00:48:15,692 --> 00:48:16,860
And did he?
652
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,259
Of course he'll get his autograph
from ancient history.
653
00:48:20,831 --> 00:48:24,535
But why do you wish to quit?
Because you're part of ancient history?
654
00:48:24,635 --> 00:48:27,240
Not at all, but...
655
00:48:28,071 --> 00:48:30,071
There are a number of reasons.
656
00:48:30,340 --> 00:48:33,434
I guess I have this intuitive sense
657
00:48:33,977 --> 00:48:37,128
that one suddenly says to oneself,
"This is it."
658
00:48:37,681 --> 00:48:41,549
I've seen so many of my colleagues
659
00:48:42,619 --> 00:48:47,977
swept off the stage,
worse for wear and utterly weary.
660
00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:53,250
And their films have become gray
and more and more boring.
661
00:48:55,766 --> 00:48:58,337
I would like
662
00:48:59,736 --> 00:49:02,773
to go down "with flag flying high."
663
00:49:03,307 --> 00:49:05,709
Like world boxing champion
Rocky Marciano,
664
00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:08,385
who left the ring
undefeated after 50 fights.
665
00:49:08,612 --> 00:49:11,076
Well, I think this is
a good place to stop.
666
00:49:11,415 --> 00:49:14,748
And there's something else
you come to realize:
667
00:49:17,487 --> 00:49:22,197
Making movies
is very strenuous physically.
668
00:49:23,427 --> 00:49:27,079
It's a fiercely physical
and psychological effort...
669
00:49:27,698 --> 00:49:30,666
and I almost think
the physical aspect is the worst.
670
00:49:31,101 --> 00:49:36,016
You produce about three minutes
of the finished movie per day.
671
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:43,086
Everyone knows that these three minutes
must be of absolute peak quality.
672
00:49:44,381 --> 00:49:46,770
The highest possible quality.
673
00:49:48,552 --> 00:49:53,524
To keep up with
this frightening level every day,
674
00:49:54,226 --> 00:49:56,226
week after week,
month after month,
675
00:49:56,326 --> 00:49:58,326
makes you terribly neurotic.
676
00:49:58,662 --> 00:50:01,085
It requires tremendous physical effort.
677
00:50:02,132 --> 00:50:06,045
I don't want any part of that anymore.
I lack the strength.
678
00:50:20,684 --> 00:50:24,154
Yes, Oscar, that's how it is.
679
00:50:25,288 --> 00:50:28,212
One is old and a child
at the same time.
680
00:50:30,927 --> 00:50:34,294
What became
of those long years in between
681
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:37,738
that seemed so important
at the time?
682
00:50:48,311 --> 00:50:50,311
May I take your hand?
683
00:50:55,819 --> 00:50:58,037
I remember your hand as a child.
684
00:50:58,455 --> 00:51:01,788
It was small and firm and dry.
685
00:51:04,995 --> 00:51:07,953
And your wrist
was so awfully slender.
686
00:51:11,635 --> 00:51:13,635
I enjoyed being a mother.
687
00:51:14,071 --> 00:51:17,655
I enjoyed being an actress too,
but I preferred being a mother.
688
00:51:19,242 --> 00:51:21,460
I liked having a big belly,
689
00:51:22,112 --> 00:51:25,080
and I didn't give two shakes
about the theater then.
690
00:51:29,019 --> 00:51:31,237
It's all acting anyway.
691
00:51:31,655 --> 00:51:33,951
Some roles are nice,
others not so nice.
692
00:51:35,025 --> 00:51:37,025
I played a mother.
693
00:51:37,494 --> 00:51:39,494
I played Juliet and Margareta.
694
00:51:40,730 --> 00:51:43,506
Then suddenly I played a widow
or a grandmother.
695
00:51:44,367 --> 00:51:46,415
One role follows the other.
696
00:51:47,771 --> 00:51:50,194
The thing is
not to shrink from them.
697
00:51:52,442 --> 00:51:55,479
But what became of it all?
698
00:51:56,913 --> 00:51:58,926
Can you tell me that, my boy?
699
00:52:02,452 --> 00:52:03,954
You're a good boy
700
00:52:04,054 --> 00:52:09,541
to listen to your old mother's soliloquies,
as Isak calls them.
701
00:52:10,660 --> 00:52:13,527
If I have a spokesman
at all in this movie,
702
00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:17,568
it has to be the grandmother,
Gunn Wéllgren's part.
703
00:52:20,437 --> 00:52:23,736
It might be even more noticeable
in the TV version
704
00:52:24,307 --> 00:52:27,265
that she's the centerpiece,
705
00:52:27,777 --> 00:52:30,291
the uniting element.
706
00:52:31,214 --> 00:52:34,638
The movie is structured
in such a way that she returns
707
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:40,067
on certain occasions...
708
00:52:42,292 --> 00:52:44,700
and she also carries
the end of the movie.
709
00:52:44,895 --> 00:52:48,319
She tells what it's all about.
710
00:52:50,567 --> 00:52:52,567
The fixed point.
711
00:52:52,769 --> 00:52:55,345
She's experienced.
She knows what's going on.
712
00:52:55,572 --> 00:52:58,508
It's often said that the women
in your films are more interesting,
713
00:52:58,608 --> 00:53:00,477
more three-dimensional than the men.
714
00:53:00,577 --> 00:53:04,206
- That's how it is in real life, right?
- You believe that?
715
00:53:05,982 --> 00:53:10,339
No, it just turned out
716
00:53:11,721 --> 00:53:15,137
that maybe the female roles were
better than the male roles.
717
00:53:15,592 --> 00:53:20,245
I also think it's more fun
to work with women.
718
00:53:22,499 --> 00:53:24,267
Especially in the early days.
719
00:53:24,367 --> 00:53:28,872
It isn't like that anymore,
but in the early days it was more fun.
720
00:53:29,606 --> 00:53:31,606
Why is that, do you think?
721
00:53:32,409 --> 00:53:34,775
Well, it must be...
722
00:53:37,013 --> 00:53:40,050
my enormous need for close contact...
723
00:53:44,087 --> 00:53:49,093
or my unwavering interest
in the opposite sex. I don't know.
724
00:53:49,893 --> 00:53:53,226
I've always found it
very exciting to work with women.
725
00:53:54,164 --> 00:53:56,466
Do you consider their spiritual life
more interesting?
726
00:53:56,566 --> 00:54:01,390
No, I wouldn't say that, but...
727
00:54:02,672 --> 00:54:05,275
For me personally,
it's always been more exciting.
728
00:54:05,375 --> 00:54:07,375
You know...
729
00:54:07,611 --> 00:54:11,707
it all started, like everything else,
in my childhood,
730
00:54:12,649 --> 00:54:16,244
because I was very much in love
with my mother.
731
00:54:16,853 --> 00:54:20,857
She was beautiful and, in many ways,
very unapproachable.
732
00:54:21,858 --> 00:54:26,864
She alternated between being
very cold and very warm.
733
00:54:28,398 --> 00:54:31,196
Sometimes she would be tender,
734
00:54:33,003 --> 00:54:35,635
and sometimes she would
push us children away.
735
00:54:35,805 --> 00:54:40,014
You could never be sure of her mood.
736
00:54:41,211 --> 00:54:45,243
But I knew one thing for certain...
l was desperately in love with her.
737
00:54:45,849 --> 00:54:49,239
Those are some
of my earliest childhood memories:
738
00:54:49,819 --> 00:54:53,209
my great attachment to my mother.
739
00:54:54,991 --> 00:55:00,224
So, I learned at a very early age...
740
00:55:02,365 --> 00:55:05,613
Very early on I studied her...
unknown to her, of course.
741
00:55:06,002 --> 00:55:08,130
I wanted so badly to get close to her.
742
00:55:08,371 --> 00:55:12,057
And so I tried to figure out
how to get closer to her.
743
00:55:16,513 --> 00:55:20,847
I investigated,
744
00:55:21,551 --> 00:55:24,850
with the cunning
745
00:55:25,422 --> 00:55:28,073
and intuition of a child,
746
00:55:29,025 --> 00:55:32,711
my mother's way of reacting,
feeling and thinking.
747
00:55:36,166 --> 00:55:39,499
For instance, I knew
748
00:55:40,637 --> 00:55:43,208
that my mother
had severe troubles with...
749
00:55:43,673 --> 00:55:47,382
Well, she often had stomachaches.
750
00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:50,699
She had, of course, developed
a nervous stomach
751
00:55:50,814 --> 00:55:53,556
from all the pressures
weighing on her.
752
00:55:54,050 --> 00:55:56,769
Mother was in fact
a rather rebellious spirit,
753
00:55:57,854 --> 00:56:00,505
though disciplined in a rectory.
754
00:56:02,359 --> 00:56:05,215
But I learned that if I said
my stomach was upset,
755
00:56:05,628 --> 00:56:07,994
I got my mother's
immediate attention.
756
00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:12,426
I would be coddled and cared for.
757
00:56:12,969 --> 00:56:16,217
When she discovered I was bluffing,
l was badly punished.
758
00:56:16,673 --> 00:56:21,906
But it got to where
I could fake a stomachache
759
00:56:22,746 --> 00:56:24,748
to the point
where I got actual pains.
760
00:56:24,848 --> 00:56:27,453
And that was wonderful,
and a huge victory,
761
00:56:27,917 --> 00:56:29,933
since she started to take care of me
762
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,472
and cuddle me
and be very tender with me.
763
00:56:32,589 --> 00:56:35,221
She was tender and caring
towards sick people,
764
00:56:35,458 --> 00:56:37,506
and to children that were ill.
765
00:56:39,028 --> 00:56:44,671
So I guess that's where
this interest in women began.
766
00:56:45,568 --> 00:56:48,310
Do you use this little trick
on other women?
767
00:56:49,205 --> 00:56:53,915
I think when you're young,
you use every means available,
768
00:56:54,677 --> 00:56:56,677
permitted or not...
769
00:56:57,547 --> 00:56:59,879
l have a strong sense
770
00:57:00,917 --> 00:57:04,216
of having used all kinds
of strange tricks in those days.
771
00:57:04,788 --> 00:57:07,420
Any trick that proved
particularly successful?
772
00:57:08,158 --> 00:57:10,672
I don't know.
What tricks did you use?
773
00:57:11,127 --> 00:57:13,127
You'd use tenderness and intellect,
774
00:57:14,731 --> 00:57:19,145
a little Weltschme/Z
and things like that
775
00:57:19,869 --> 00:57:24,659
that could serve to get
the ladies interested.
776
00:57:30,713 --> 00:57:34,661
Being a young man was very problematic
for me with girls and all,
777
00:57:37,220 --> 00:57:40,496
as l was, first of all, a lousy dancer.
778
00:57:41,458 --> 00:57:45,815
Maybe I was a bit too interested,
and I looked like hell, so it was hard.
779
00:57:47,163 --> 00:57:51,350
But I think it all started
back somewhere in my childhood.
780
00:57:52,035 --> 00:57:56,179
When did all that start to change?
You said these were problems of youth?
781
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,664
Well, as I grew older
782
00:58:02,445 --> 00:58:04,663
and formed an identity,
783
00:58:05,081 --> 00:58:08,049
achieving professional success
and things like that.
784
00:58:08,318 --> 00:58:12,061
- You stopped being so eager, perhaps?
- That's right.
785
00:58:13,456 --> 00:58:15,392
Well, you know how it is.
786
00:58:15,492 --> 00:58:17,627
Some things
have to be learned from life.
787
00:58:17,727 --> 00:58:19,727
Yes.
788
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:22,298
Thanks.
789
00:58:22,398 --> 00:58:24,470
Is the feminist contingent satisfied?
790
00:58:26,269 --> 00:58:28,783
Did she laugh?
It didn't sound...
791
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,074
I don't think she sounded satisfied.
792
00:58:31,174 --> 00:58:33,582
She'll have to settle for that.
Thank you.
793
00:58:34,544 --> 00:58:36,470
- Well, were you?
- Yes, it'll do.
794
00:58:36,570 --> 00:58:37,881
She's satisfied.
795
00:58:37,981 --> 00:58:42,953
She's thinking, "Damn, it's hopeless.
Two darned old male chauvinist pigs."
796
00:58:43,753 --> 00:58:46,813
She's used to being
bullied around at home.
797
00:58:47,924 --> 00:58:49,924
And by you too, huh?